ED

But that ended in the 21st century. Now, we really don't have that anymore. There's no continuum because of this idea that everything, everywhere, all at once, right? So, because of the internet, there's no time, right? It's all pluralism, everything. And also, there's no counterculture. Experimental design, everything has a context, right? Even bad design is cool in a certain context, mediocre design. So, everyone now knows it's a context. There's no counterculture. There's no, oh, you can't do this. You can do anything, as long as the context is right.

 

There's no past, present, or future anymore. So, all these young people, they see everything from the past. They see everything exactly from the present. There's no projection really into the future, Because in the past, experimental design was kind of what drove the future.  

SC

Well, Ed, I appreciate your recollection of these things, because what you were saying, like the 21st century, and I hate to say this or give it this credit, but it has destroyed anticipation and experimentation with all of its immediate delivery. Because now, people like you and I, we can stand by and watch all this go by, but the younger folks who are trying to find their way in this world don't know whether this is past, present, or future. And then there's no anticipation of counterculture. It's been overlooked and destroyed. 

ED

I have an example of that. When I came here in 1987, I had been doing these flyers for the Detroit Focus Gallery, which were my experimental design. It was an artist collective. So as a collective, we'd rent a storefront for a gallery and then have exhibitions. There was a lot of grant money in those days. I think I told you about this before. I was part of the collective as an artist, and so I did the flyers, I mean the announcements for the shows. I did it with experimental typography. It had nothing to do with the artists or the shows themselves. It was my using that information for experimental typography. So I did a whole bunch of those.

 

Every month and a half, I'd do a new one because I'd have new shows. So I had about 12 or 13 of these when I came here to California, and nobody had ever seen those except in Detroit, So Lori Haycock was here at the time, and I was hired. She didn't ever come look at my work or anything.

Lorraine hired me from Cranbrook because when she got the job here, she started hiring Cranbrook people. I graduated. I had a long history.

 

Lorraine knew exactly what I was doing, but Lori Haycock didn't. So she set up something with the AIGA down in Los Angeles and asked faculty to put some work into it. So I sent down those flyers.

They were laid out, front and back. You also had to see both sides, evidently. Everyone saw them.

 

Even Lori Haycock came in. It just blew her mind seeing those. So she immediately enrolled in Cranbrook. So Lorraine had to find another faculty for the grad program, because she abruptly went to Cranbrook. Of course, the rest is history, right? She met Scott Makela there. Then she ended up being the chair at Cranbrook. Years later, she and Scott were both chairs. They made a huge impression on graphic design at that point. 

SC

That's when you and I first met each other, way back when, during that experimental time in graphic design.

ED

I remember, and again, there was no professional context, so to speak. The work was just coming out and we were seeing it wherever we could see it. Publications, there was no online anything. The thing that made my reputation was in 1990 when Emigre did an issue with me. So that work all of a sudden went to universities and places where this kind of design was appreciated, right? Not for the profession. The profession didn't have anything to do with this kind of work for decades. Now, of course, that's no longer an issue. Now, CalArts grads get hired. It's just amazing to see a really fabulous branding portfolio. And then all of a sudden there's a CalArts poster there. That's as weird and far out as can be. That's what a CalArts poster's supposed to look like.  It has an experimental look to it.

SC

You know, Ed, you bring up a good point.

There's no light on that experimentation anymore because there is no proper context. 

ED

Not only that, it's not necessary. It's not that anyone destroyed it. It just wasn't necessary anymore. This was something that was necessary at one time. And also, don't forget that it even started in the 19th century when it became necessary.

When photography finally made an exact representation, which all Western art was aspiring to, then all of a sudden, photography came along and captured a realistic image. Then, you know, artists realized that, hey, you know, portraits, for example, who'd want a painted portrait when you could get a photograph. Anyone could get a photograph. Well, like in Mad Men. They'd get a painting of themselves... Just think of that. In those early 50s ads, there was no photography.

SC

I like when you were talking about being a tissue man or, you know, building mechanicals, you had the art department actually illustrating men and women, and those were... That was the photography for the time.

ED

You know, you had to be a craftsman actually and an amazing illustrator building this version of men and women in the 50s or 60s. Then in comes photography and completely replaces that entire system.  

Well, it happened also with car painting. You know, there was photos that somehow never could do justice to cars because they had to stretch them and do weird things to make them look right. Right. But eventually, photography did that. But car painters did that years before all along. You know, especially starting in the 50s when they became streamlined. And it had to be shown in a certain way. There was one point in time when a photo magazine published a bunch of Detroit car paintings. They were painted photographically real. And so finally, they mistook them for photographs. Other car painters got a big laugh out of it... But on the other hand, you know, a few years later, car painters were absolute anyway. It's a good lesson for all of us, maybe not to be so presumptuous.

SC

Well, Ed, I'll ask you, in light of that movement, what about graphic design... Do you think graphic design lives in a grey area today in our present platform culture?

ED

Okay. Well, that's what I was going to also talk about.

So for years, my reply to the future of graphic design was always, you know, whatever, it's all good.

People would ask me even back in the days when I was doing lectures. But I also called myself an exit level designer and, you know, history, right? Okay. So my first slide would even say, you know, “I'm history”. So you're getting a lecture of a design period that's, you know, postmodern and analog and all that, that's basically history. 

SC

That's a compliment to your audience. 

ED

I was showing my work as a way to, I used to say, by mythologizing my own past, I'm giving you hope for your future. Like his narrative about, you know, how I started in graphic design and, you know, how I succeeded in graphic design in my time, right? Not in your time.

Not today. To the audience, right? Because your time is yet to come. This is my time. So it's no, it's not a model or anything.